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Discusiones entre usuarios sobre Malvinas en Mercopress

 
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El Eternauta



Registrado: 23 May 2008
Mensajes: 525
Ubicación: Mendoza

MensajePublicado: Sab Jul 11, 2009 1:44 pm    Asunto: Discusiones entre usuarios sobre Malvinas en Mercopress Responder citando

Discusiones entre usuarios ingleses y argentinos sobre Malvinas en Mercopress

Hablan sobre este prestigioso foro y Malvinas

El inglés Justin Kuntz versus el argentino Luis

Justin Kuntz: Ah I see they brought re-inforcements.

El Malvinense did not bring any cogent arguments, all I've ever seen from him or any of his cohorts was the usual Argentine propaganda, a complete unwillingness to listen and a narrown nationalist approach that verged on racism. Usually grandly claiming to have won the argument, when any neutral observer could calmly point out he did not. I suggest you go back to your little forum and discuss it among yourselves, in the usual self-reinforcing, backslapping myth perpetuation you seem so fond of. Academics? An academic evaluates the evidence and reaches a conclusion, the so-called "academics" you refer to select the evidence to fit whatever pre-conceived notions they have an ignore any contrary evidence.

Argentine propaganda? Let me think. The expulsion of 1833 that never happened. The claim that Jewett was sent in 1820, when the truth is he blundered into the Falklands in a storm. Or that a few sporadic and ineffective expeditions in the 1820s somehow established a sovereignty claim. How about the lies by omission, like conveniently forgetting to mention that Vernet sought permission from the British to go to the Falklands, provided them with regular reports and urged them to establish a garrision. Not to mention elevating a common murderer and a thief to a gallant freedom fighter.

Then we have the modern pervesion of UN resolutions, like the contrived argument of "territorial integrity". The clause regarding territorial integrity was inserted to stop colonial powers keeping choice pieces of dependent territories for themselves; it is there to protect the people of dependent territories not to allow nation states to deny people enjoy the right to self-determination. The relevant resolution is quite explicit "all peoples enjoy the right to self-determination".

Some examples of Argentine propaganda and I didn't even have to try.

Not to mention claiming that Britain won't negotiate and this is somehow an excuse for Argentina's act of unprovoked aggression in 1982. Britain was prepared to negotiate, right up to the point when Argentina chose to stomp into a peaceful island community guarded by 40 Royal Marines with most of its navy and 2500 troops.

If you wish to negotiate, then talk to the FIG. They've already indicated their willingness to talk and its probably escaped your notice but they are self-governing. Ah but no, your propaganda won't allow you to recognise that and you have to dismiss them as irrelevant.

Newsflash guys. Negotiation is not about how Britain capitulates to Argentine demands and meekly hands the islands over. The day you're really prepared to negotiate people may listen. Its Argentina that has torn up and abandoned every confidence building measure achieved since the war and its Argentina that refuses to co-operate. Its Argentina that pursues a confrontational and aggressive foreign policy to coerce the islanders.

And arbitration? I presume someone is referring to Argentina's late 19th Century attempt to persuade the British to consider arbitration when it revived the claim after renouncing it under the 1850 Convention of Settlement. Well in the 20th Century Britain has proposed to Argentina on three separate occasions since 1947 resort to the ICJ to resolve matters. It was Argentina that refused to do so, which merely shows just how confident the Argentine Government is about its contrived claim.


Respuesta:

Luis: Ariel no te calentes, aunque tengas una declaración de la reina firmada por ella que admita que las islas son Argentinas, ellos lo seguirán negando a muerte. Incluso si el Reino Unido regala las islas a Argentina ellos seguirán aduciendo que les pertenecía.
Hace falta ver lo que hacen en irak, donde mintieron al mundo entero diciendo que irak tenia conexiones con al qaeda y armas de destrucción masiva que podian usarse en menos de 48 horas contra paises occidentales.
Donde colgaron al dictador hussein despues de asesinar a su abogado. Donde Bush junior amenazó a los paises aliados que no sacarían una gota de petroleo sino colaboraban con la coalición, y se repartieron el petroleo con sus aliados europeos.
Los britanicos no conocen razones, salvo la de las armas. Ellos no tienen respeto ni por la onu salvo cuando les conviene. Por eso es que hay que tener memoria e inteligencia para que los proximos no seamos nosotros.


Respuesta:

Justin Kuntz: Its actually quite simple. If you want the islands, you have to convince the islanders that its in their best interest to become part of Argentina. You do this by engaging, talking and addressing them with respect. Argentina chooses instead to refuse to engage, refuses to talk, dismisses them as irrelevant and not worthy of consideration as mere "settlers". You contrive the most ludicrous and contorted logic.

Ultimately the decision is theirs to take, whatever they choose to do, Britain will respect.

You claim the British only respect force, when its the one thing they don't respect. Argentina resorted to force in 1982, not Britain. Argentina ignored Resolution 502, not Britain. Argentina only recognises UN resolutions when it suits them, claiming the UN demands negotiations, when in reality it has no intention of negotiating.

I'm not going to defend the decision to invade Iraq, I was one of millions who did not agree with it. But Britain and America are committed to handing the country back to a democratically elected Government. Oil revenue belongs to the Iraqis, it was Saddam Hussein and his cronies who squandered oil revenue on stupid wars.

But then as I've said previously, you're only interested in drawing conclusions that supports your own racist views of other peoples. And they are racist, you judge people on the basis of prejudice.

And its rich claiming the British claiming the British refuse to countenance anything about the ownership of the islands. Its Argentina that refuses to consider anything other than its claims. In negotiations, Britain was prepared to make concessions, Argentina has never budged an inch.


Respuesta:


Luis: Justin, you said ""Then we have the modern pervesion of UN resolutions""
Do you think a nation like mine in this times where we dont have veto power in the security council and never did, no influence at all in the international comunnity, have the power to pervert the United Nations??? que caradura.
When you guys say you are sorry to the un for all the lies you made about iraq. when you guys acept unilateralism is no way to resolve things, may be then your perspective of UN resolutions will be diferently. Justin,about the icj, stop with the lie, i had show you proof enough that the 1947 ,48 and 1955 resort to the ICJ to resolve matters were a simple act of oportunism and it was not about malvinas islands, it was about its adyacent islands and argentine and chilean antartic territory.
I had even showed you a map made by the icj where malvinas islands were not included in the dispute of the matter presented and in that map were demarked exactly the area of conflict.
I tell you more, we dont have to talk with islanders, they are not the colonized people who should be decolonized, they are the colonizers who should stop colonizing malvinas islands, thats why Un resolution 2065 invites only UK and Argentina to negotiate sovereignty becouse inhabitants of malvinas are mostly originated in the north hemisphere.
I give you an example:
Governor of malvinas Mr Alan Huckle , came from britain.
Government Chief Executive, Dr Tim Thorogood, came from britain.
legislative assembly Mr John Birmingham, came from britain.
legislative assembly Andrea Clausen came from britain.
legislative assembly Mr Richard Cockwell came from britain.
legislative assembly Mr Mike Rendell came from britain.
legislative assembly Mr Richard Stevens came from britain.
very Autochthonous for an original government in the islands.
I forgot to mention, the constitution i think it was made too in britain.

http://en.mercopress.com/2009/07/03/falkland-islands-weekly-penguin-news-update15


Bueno el inglés Justin Kuntz no respondió hasta el momento.

Un abrazo
_________________
Péguense al suelo, están tirando misiles.
Pegaditos, no demasiado, pero pegaditos, ¿Ok, chicas?
¡Vamos pendejo, vamos pendejo!,¡Viva la Patria! (Huijaaaa!!!) impacto de las bombas en el HMS Coventry).
Dio perfecto señor, era una serie 42, lo vi clarito.
¡Mire como explotó esa puta!
Pegó de atrás en la Proa, las tres señor, explotaron muy bien.
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gercanz



Registrado: 19 May 2008
Mensajes: 1155
Ubicación: Tucuman

MensajePublicado: Sab Jul 11, 2009 3:36 pm    Asunto: Responder citando

El eternauta escribio:
Justin Kuntz: Ah I see they brought re-inforcements.

El Malvinense did not bring any cogent arguments, all I've ever seen from him or any of his cohorts was the usual Argentine propaganda, a complete unwillingness to listen and a narrown nationalist approach that verged on racism. Usually grandly claiming to have won the argument, when any neutral observer could calmly point out he did not. I suggest you go back to your little forum and discuss it among yourselves, in the usual self-reinforcing, backslapping myth perpetuation you seem so fond of. Academics? An academic evaluates the evidence and reaches a conclusion, the so-called "academics" you refer to select the evidence to fit whatever pre-conceived notions they have an ignore any contrary evidence.

Argentine propaganda? Let me think. The expulsion of 1833 that never happened. The claim that Jewett was sent in 1820, when the truth is he blundered into the Falklands in a storm. Or that a few sporadic and ineffective expeditions in the 1820s somehow established a sovereignty claim. How about the lies by omission, like conveniently forgetting to mention that Vernet sought permission from the British to go to the Falklands, provided them with regular reports and urged them to establish a garrision. Not to mention elevating a common murderer and a thief to a gallant freedom fighter.

Then we have the modern pervesion of UN resolutions, like the contrived argument of "territorial integrity". The clause regarding territorial integrity was inserted to stop colonial powers keeping choice pieces of dependent territories for themselves; it is there to protect the people of dependent territories not to allow nation states to deny people enjoy the right to self-determination. The relevant resolution is quite explicit "all peoples enjoy the right to self-determination".

Some examples of Argentine propaganda and I didn't even have to try.

Not to mention claiming that Britain won't negotiate and this is somehow an excuse for Argentina's act of unprovoked aggression in 1982. Britain was prepared to negotiate, right up to the point when Argentina chose to stomp into a peaceful island community guarded by 40 Royal Marines with most of its navy and 2500 troops.

If you wish to negotiate, then talk to the FIG. They've already indicated their willingness to talk and its probably escaped your notice but they are self-governing. Ah but no, your propaganda won't allow you to recognise that and you have to dismiss them as irrelevant.

Newsflash guys. Negotiation is not about how Britain capitulates to Argentine demands and meekly hands the islands over. The day you're really prepared to negotiate people may listen. Its Argentina that has torn up and abandoned every confidence building measure achieved since the war and its Argentina that refuses to co-operate. Its Argentina that pursues a confrontational and aggressive foreign policy to coerce the islanders.

And arbitration? I presume someone is referring to Argentina's late 19th Century attempt to persuade the British to consider arbitration when it revived the claim after renouncing it under the 1850 Convention of Settlement. Well in the 20th Century Britain has proposed to Argentina on three separate occasions since 1947 resort to the ICJ to resolve matters. It was Argentina that refused to do so, which merely shows just how



Esto me recuerda al estilo del gordo h.
No se si notan la similitud de los argumentos!!
Muy buen punto eternauta.
Un abrazo!!

_________________
MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS!! USURPADAS TEMPORARIAMENTE POR INGLATERRA,LA LADRONA.
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